Key Points
- Near-death experiences
- Muslim death rites and rituals
- Advanced care plans
A former personal trainer, Mariam Ardati now spends her time caring for the dying, the dead, and their loved ones, advocating for family-led death care, and educating her community about the practicalities of death and dying.
In this episode, she talks us through Muslim customs and beliefs concerning death, breaking down cultural barriers as a Muslim woman, and what she calls the “temporary nature of this life”.
Mariam also explains the catastrophic effects of COVID-19 on her community and how she was forced to adapt her practices as a death doula, hospital chaplain, funeral director, and Muslim, to obey strict pandemic health rules and regulations.
Reporting by The Guardian on shows people born in the Middle East suffered the highest death rate of Australians by country or region of birth and the wounds are still open, as many continue to reckon with complicated grief.
In a soul-stirring exploration of passion, compassion, self-care, and of course, death, Anthony and Nadine learn about Islamic rites of the dead, the possible future of death care in Australia, and the magical benefits of float therapy.
Without sounding too dramatic, I much prefer dealing with the dead than the living.Mariam Ardati
LISTEN TO
Hospitals and Hijabs: One Woman’s Mission to Raise Death Literacy in Her Community
SBS Audio
26/03/202445:29
Grave Matters is an SBS Audio podcast about death, dying and the people helping us understand both better. Find it in your podcast app such as the SBS Audio app, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or LiSTNR.
Hosts: Anthony Levin and Nadine J. Cohen
Producer: Jeremy Wilmot
Writers: Anthony Levin and Nadine J. Cohen
Art and design: Karina Aslikyan
SBS team: Max Gosford, Joel Supple, Caroline Gates
Guest: Mariam Ardati
If you'd like to speak to someone, you can reach a counsellor at Beyond Blue at any time, day or night, by calling 1300 22 4636 or visiting . Also, Lifeline offers 24/7 crisis support on 13 11 14, and supports people from culturally and linguistically diverse backgrounds. In an emergency call 000.
Transcript
Content Warning: This episode mentions death, dying and other potentially difficult content. Please take care.
Anthony: Nadine Jebediah Cohen.
Nadine: I’m more of a Magic Dirt girl. Shout out to all the people over 40 listening now.
Anthony: Big fat base.
Nadine: Have you ever had a near-death experience?
Anthony: I have. And I haven't spoken to many people about it because it was pretty harrowing. Just buried it deep down. But it was quite some years ago.
I was at university. I’d just finished rehearsing for a show with some guys, some mates of mine, who were still really good mates.
Nadine: You're ballet troupe?
Anthony: Touché. Yes, my ballet comedy troupe.
We went to the pub and we were just decompressing from the session and I looked over towards the window of the pub's glass doors and a couple of guys in balaclavas were smashing their way through. And I initially thought it was a prank - college students up to no good.
Seconds later, there were men in balaclavas with shotguns ranging around the room. And it was one of those moments that really tests your flight, fight or freeze instincts. And I just ran. Most sensible people hit the deck and went under the table but me and two of my mates bolted for the nearest exit because I figured I could get out.
And as I ran across the room and rounded the corner of this short corridor to the exit, I turned my head and one of the men with the shotguns was standing there pointing the gun at me and he shouted something that I kind of remember something like get out of here or I'll shoot you, something like that.
So in that moment, I thought I'm dead, and I was just waiting for him to shoot me. It kind of, everything went to slow motion, even though I'm running as fast as I can. I'm just waiting for the bullet to come. But it doesn't come, obviously, here I am.
And I just keep running and I run out the door and he doesn't fire any shots. My other friend behind me hits the floor and my friend in front of me keeps running as well and he goes and dives into a pot plant and I just run to bloody Maroubra. And I just ran for 10 minutes because I was so scared.
Nadine: Wow, we’ve been friends for 25 years and I’ve never heard that story before. That is insane.
Anthony: Yeah, it's pretty insane. And the best part of the story was that after I stopped running and I returned to the pub to meet my friends and kind of debrief and check in. Make sure everyone was OK. We're just walking back to the car park where one of them had parked the car and as we approached, one of my mates, who's a lovable larrikin, he goes near the passenger side and he goes “Shotgun!”.
Nadine: That's amazing.
Anthony: It was perfect and we all like pissed ourselves, kind of, you know, beautiful gallows humour. And it was kind of a bonding experience. My life didn't flash before my eyes, my death flashed before my eyes. Because absolutely in that moment, I thought, this is it. I'm dead.
Nadine: Yeah, wow.
Anthony: Freaky.
Nadine: That's insane.
Anthony: Have you had a near-death experience?
Nadine: I almost died from joy at a Beyoncé concert once. Does that count?
Anthony: It counts it counts.
Nadine: I also fell down the stairs at a Lizzo concert about two weeks ago. That's a whole other story.
Anthony: I know you've got Lizzo knee now.
Nadine: Now I have Lizzo knee.
Nadine: Moving on, so while today's episode isn't focused on near-death experiences or, sadly, Beyoncé, we meet a woman who found her life's purpose when a near-fatal car accident set her on a new spiritual and professional path.
So in today's episode, we're asking, what does it mean to dedicate your life to death? And how do you find work-life balance in a job that never ends?
Anthony: So Nadine, one thing that I guess we are thinking about in this episode is advanced care plans. Do you have one?
Nadine: I don't and I feel very wrong about that now, hosting this podcast. And so I’m committing to do it. I have a will, but I don't have an advanced care plan.
Anthony: Oh that's great. I'm embarrassed to say, as the lawyer on the podcast, I don't have a will.
Nadine: You have a child!
Anthony: I know. And you know what? It's been on my list of to-dos for a long time. The list is long, I'm a busy guy, but it's really high on the list. And also because I'm a lawyer, I'm like, I can do that myself, I don't need to pay someone to do that. Like, I should be able to do that myself. But I don't practise in succession or wills and estates at all. So that's part of the reason. That's my excuse, anyway.
Nadine: That’s your homework.
Anthony: That is my homework. And I do feel like a care plan is necessary too, especially because both my grandparents are very elderly now. My grandma and Nana are 96 and 97. It's making me think more about it. Let's.
Nadine: Do they have one?
Anthony: I think my Nana does because she's in a home. I don't know about my grandma does because she's still at home.
Nadine: Do it. Are you gonna ask them?
Anthony: Yeah, that's my homework too.
Nadine: Well, how about have you ever had compassion fatigue?
Anthony: Yeah, that's a good question. That’s another theme we're going to explore in this episode or this interview. I have and obviously, my work is nothing like our guest’s, Mariam Ardati, but I am a carer.
My wife has several chronic health conditions and I have been a carer for her for nearly a decade. And there are absolutely times when I have had very bad compassion fatigue and found it really difficult to connect with what was going on because carers need respite too, right? And it's a, I think, an unspoken topic for a lot of families who do unpaid caregiving.
Nadine: Yeah, absolutely. And we're gonna cover that in the interview.
***
Nadine: Today we're speaking with Sydney-based death doula and independent funeral director Mariam Ardati. Mariam provides support to people end-of-life and works to help people overcome their fear of death. She assists families in caring for dying loved ones and educates her community on the importance of planning for the end.
Hi, Mariam, welcome to Grave Matters. Thank you so much for joining us.
I want listeners to know how committed you are to doing this podcast in that your newborn is rocking next to you. So thank you.
Mariam: Yeah, thanks, Nadine. I guess life and death don't stop for babies. So we just keep going, you know, regardless of what's happening. But yes, she is next to me and she's keeping really quiet for now. Hope she stays like that.
Nadine: OK, good girl. So you're a consummate, I'd say, multi-hyphenate. You're a funeral director; you're a chaplain; you're a death doula; you're a death educator; you're a death literacy advocate - you wear a lot of different hats. And you bring a very unique cultural experience that we've been very interested in hearing about, as a Muslim death doula.
I think, in order for our listeners to truly understand the beauty and the complexity of your work, we should start with the basics. So what happens when a Muslim person dies?
Mariam: So there are four rights that are afforded to any Muslim who dies, according to Islamic tradition. And essentially, those rituals to a degree mimic what we believe is happening at a meta-physical level to the soul of the believer.
So once that soul leaves the body, it then is taken by essentially an army of angels that escort it up to the seven heavens and then give it its glad tidings. And before they escort the soul up to the heavens, they actually wrap it in shrouds that are perfumed in musk and they take it with great care up to the heavens. And what we end up doing to the body is we offer it four rights, one of which is a shrouding and a perfuming in musk.
So the first right is a ritual bath that we give the body and there are some pretty specific steps that are taken during that bath to ensure its completion.
The second right that's afforded to the dead is the ritual shrouding. So there are some set garments that are made from plain cotton that the body is wrapped in.
It's then transferred to a place where a communal prayer is offered, also known as the Janaza Prayer, and that's the third right for the deceased.
And the fourth right of the deceased is that it's given an underground internment, so the only acceptable method of disposal for a body in Islam is a burial.
And they're the four rights that are that are given to the dead.
Nadine: And we've discussed previously, you and I, the similarities with Anthony and my culture, with Judaism, particularly you have that time frame to get that body in the ground as well. And for us, it's kind of ASAP but you guys, it's even quicker than that.
Mariam: It is ASAP. So essentially, it's usually all done and complete in 24 hours. So as soon as someone passes away, the family gets to spend some time with the deceased. But essentially the preparation for those four rights happens almost immediately. In saying that, we are restricted. Somewhat, in that we can't bury 24 hours a day here in Australia. And so as a result of that, sometimes it isn't necessary to rush so we get families to spend some time with their deceased person until they're transferred into the care of the funeral home.
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Anthony (VO): We wondered why Mariam chose this work; why she chose to surround herself with death and dying. Or did death and dying choose her?
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Mariam: It was quite a dramatic near-death experience. I had just finished work and locked off my gym. I was a fitness trainer back then. I'd gotten into my VN Commodore, which I loved back in the day. You're old enough to know what that is.
Nadine: What colour was it?
Mariam: It was sky blue.
Nadine: Nice.
Mariam: It was a sky blue colour.
Nadine: Nice.
Mariam: I got into the car and took off home and I had a sand and soil truck pull out as I was heading down along Punchbowl Road and collided head-on with the truck. It actually happened in slow motion to me, so I was able to get into a foetal position and brace myself and had I not done that it would have been my face into the tipper truck because the whole driver's side of the vehicle was totalled and the car caught on fire. I had to crawl out from the passenger side.
The road was closed in both directions. Emergency services were there. I remember when the ambulance arrived, they were calling out. Where's the driver? Where's the driver? And then I was like, that's me. And they couldn't believe that I had escaped something like that completely unscathed.
And I was like, OK, had I died, who would have gotten my body out of the car? And what would have happened to those remains afterwards? You know, who would look after it? I grew up watching a lot of Hollywood movies and CSI Miami. I've seen what happens to bodies and I still thought that they put them in a coffin and buried them in the ground, even though I was Muslim and our traditions don't allow for coffin burials. That's all I'd ever seen. That's all I knew.
So it made me then look into what happens to someone when they die and what rituals are performed. And then I walked into a funeral parlour and I just said to the lady there teach me, teach me how to what you do. And it's been a love story ever since.
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Nadine (VO): Before the accident, Mariam's experience with death was exclusively limited to family pets. Specifically, some guinea pigs, a few rabbits and what sounds like a whole school of goldfish. But when it came to humans, she was flying blind.
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Mariam: I'd actually never had someone significant in my life die. Death was like a mystery. Like, it happens to everybody else, but it's probably not gonna happen to me. That was my mentality before that car accident. I was a personal trainer, I thought if I ate well and exercised and trained, I was gonna live forever.
And even though my parents would tell us, oh so and so's passed away, we're going to the funeral, they wouldn't really tell us what happened at the funeral. So I didn't know what the rights were and I didn't know what the traditions were around death and dying for Muslims. No idea.
Anthony: When you had your accident, you said that it happened to you in slow motion. Was there a part of that experience that was not just physical for you? Was there a spiritual experience in the moment of the accident? Or was that really something that came after?
Mariam: No, it was definitely something I experienced during or on impact and then shortly after. I knew from the minute I stepped out of the car that God didn't want me to go then and there was a reason why I was given another chance, so to speak.
So that's what led me to walk into the funeral parlour. I wanted to connect with, I guess, the feeling of death. What it felt like, what it looked like so that maybe I could work through any fears that I had, but also so that I could give back. And that's why it became a calling for me.
I thought, OK, someone is going to eventually give me those rights, I want to be the one to offer that to others. And then through learning and practising these rituals, I've come to, I guess, accept my own mortality and the temporary nature of this life. And so I'm a lot less scared of having to let go when my time comes.
Nadine: That's wonderful. How have your beliefs and opinions about death changed since the accident? How have they developed in the last, you say, 17 years?
Mariam: Oh, there's been a massive shift. So prior to my accident and even entering the death care sector, death was almost the end. It was a scary, sad, sombre transition. Whereas since then, my education around death and what it means for Muslims is that it's definitely not the end. It's just another transition for this soul to move from one realm to another. The soul is finally set free.
And for people that, literally their body becomes their prison at end-of-life, understanding and appreciating the fact that the soul is set free from the constraints of the body is very comforting to those left behind. We also appreciate the fact that any type of separation in this world is temporary and that we will all be reunited again, it's just a matter of time.
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Anthony (VO): Before the reunion, however, Mariam is on a mission to educate her community about the powerful, emotional and spiritual benefits of family-led in-home death care.
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Mariam: Believe it or not, it's actually still a foreign concept and it's been a work in progress for me over the last decade or so to try and make people feel more comfortable having their person at home before death and then performing some of those rights at the home, even after death. And I guess that just stems from a historic, or I'd say recent history, where people no longer see the dying at home anymore.
So death is an experience that happens in a hospital, in a hospice, in a palliative care facility. It doesn't happen at home anymore. And so what dying looks like, what it sounds like, what it means to the person who's dying is foreign to us.
And a lot of that has led to some anxieties around having the dying at home, or even handling a body after death. So a lot of what I do is to break down a lot of those anxieties. We have a look at what's causing the fear reassurance and discussion about what death means to us as Muslims.
Nadine: With the families you work with, is it something that maybe you offer them, and at first it's a, it's a no, and then maybe they get more comfortable or they change their minds or, you know, they think about it a bit.
Mariam: Oh Nadine, getting families involved in the rituals, period, is often met with a no. And again, that's because of that whole fear of, you know, I don't wanna see my mum like that or that's not the last memory I wanna have of my loved one. And again it's just getting them comfortable with the idea that there is so much that you can benefit from performing these rituals for your person.
You're able to touch them, to hold them, to honour their body, to perfume their shrouds. You know, when they start to look at the meaning behind the rituals, then I find them edging closer and closer to, you know, the preparation table and actually participating in the rituals.
And we know that there's a connection between allowing people to be a part of rituals after death and a better grieving process, and this is where I see the biggest benefit in bringing people into this space. So my mission is to see everyone be able to provide that end-of-life care to people from their own families and their loved ones.
***
Anthony: I mean, there's a risk of vicarious trauma in this work, isn't there?
Mariam: Huge risk and I have been through that and it's not pretty. And that's why I make it a point to, as you said in the beginning of the interview, Nadine, I wear a few different hats or hijabs. And so I make sure that I consciously say when I walk into that space, OK, this is the role I'm playing now and that role is going to have to come to an end.
And what's really amazing about the rituals that I offer is that it's recommended that the person who's offering those rituals for the deceased to then take a ritual bath themselves after they've completed the rights and it's almost like it's cleansing me. And I feel that as the water is washing over my body, I'm actually washing away whatever it is that caused me to become distressed in that experience so that I can then get out of that bath feeling like I've renewed myself and I can start again.
Nadine: OK, so you've got four kids, a husband and heaps of clients. So you've got a lot of people depending on your care. But beyond ritual baths, how do you care for yourself?
Mariam: For me, it's reconnecting with my faith. That's really helped me a lot. So a lot of the rituals around death and dying are supposed to give us meaning and purpose in life. You can't really talk about death without talking about life. The two are very much interconnected.
So we stop everything that we're doing five times a day and offer a prayer. It only takes about 5 minutes, but it really forces me to just stop what I'm doing and focus on something that is a lot bigger than what I'm seeing in front of me. And that helps me reset and also it also helps me reinforce why I do what I do; that keeps me connected to that higher purpose.
My husband's a counsellor, so that helps with the debriefing. And I do a lot of my own personal self-care. I have a fully equipped gym in my garage and that's where I find my solace. But also I heavily rely on float therapy. That's really helped me just process a lot of the noise in my head, particularly if it's been a very tough experience.
I have had some deaths that have really kind of shaken me to the core, in terms of seeing the suffering of people at end-of-life and the impact it's had, particularly on small children. I've had a single mum, I'll never forget her experience. And so there are really things that you can often take home with you and it's really important that I don't do that because I've got some kids at home and a husband that needs me.
So the float therapy really helps. I highly recommend it.
Anthony: Yeah, I've always wanted to do that. I have to say. And I was thinking about it just this week thinking, gosh, I just want to get into a tank that's dark, switch everything off. I know that sounds weird, but that's where I'm at in my life.
But let's not talk about that because I think this is an interesting point to touch on. Both Nadine and I, in different ways, work in caring professions and I wonder if you've ever actually had compassion fatigue in the work that you do, notwithstanding the self-care that you do.
Mariam: Oh I definitely have and that's what opened up the education process around self-care. It's because I didn't even recognise things were as hard as they were on my mind and my body until it was too late.
So I would get home after a really busy day and I couldn't empathise with my own children's struggles. So I had a daughter who was experiencing some bullying at school and then she'd come and tell me what was going on. Ordinarily, I'd be, you know, very open to role-playing, and this is what you say and this is how you handle that. And I was getting to a point where I was like, there are worse things that are happening in life like you need to just kind of get over it or I. I can't really listen to what you have to say right now. I just need some time to myself.
And that's when I realised, woah, this is not me. Something's not right. And then I attended a social workers event on self-care and I was like hey, this is what I need. I really need to just find a way to look after myself. So yeah, I've definitely experienced it. It's really ugly, it's not nice.
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Nadine (VO): Funeral directing has traditionally been a male-dominated space in many, perhaps most, cultures, but in some respects, that's changing. We asked Mariam what's behind the shift.
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Mariam: I mean, when we talk about things being traditionally male-dominated funerals, when we say traditional, we're really only talking the last 90 to 100 years. Because prior to that, when women died, women looked after women and when men died, men looked after men. It was very much something that both sexes participated in.
This whole, let's call a funeral director that happens to be male and in a suit, and someone you’ve probably never even met before and won't see again after the funeral is very foreign to us as humans. We're usually used to dying in communities where the communities then come in and look after the deceased.
Where the movements come from, well, we've actually, frankly had enough of the way that death has been handled. I don't like to make it men against women, but essentially it has been a male-dominated profession and it's quite confronting when a female passes away, particularly for Muslims, because there's that whole, you know, women are usually dressed modestly, they cover a lot of their body. To have a male called in to then look after the remains or even transfer the remains from the place of death to the funeral home is a foreign concept.
So there's been a lot of talk about opening the doors up to having women more involved but I wasn't going to wait for permission. I really had to muscle my way into this space, and although it was met with a lot of scepticism and some outright resistance, it's now welcomed by the community. I think knowing that people can pick up a phone and speak to a woman on the other end - we’re naturally a lot more empathetic and caring. And so that brings families a lot of comfort.
And so again, for me, it's about creating those spaces where women can take an active role, as they always have, in caring for their loved one, even after death. It doesn't have to stop when the person passes away, it can continue after death and in those after-death rituals.
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Anthony (VO): Consoling the dying or bereaved is difficult, even for close friends and experienced mourners. Most of us find ourselves at a loss for what to do or say. So how does a professional effectively navigate a space of grief?
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Mariam: I always walk into a space like that with the understanding that I don't have any expectations. I literally walk in and think, OK where are these people out right now? Have they processed this loss? Are they still in shock? Do they have their affairs in order? Are they gonna need some ongoing support and care?
I don't walk in with any expectations because people are in different places in this time. Sometimes the dying have made peace with their death a lot quicker than the family members that are left behind, and sometimes it's the other way around. So I just go in with a very listening, attentive ear. I kind of work out who's who.
It's really important to find out who the decision-makers are in this space because they're the people that I usually make a priority to talk to because they may influence everybody else's mood after that. So finding the decision maker is really important and then just meeting them wherever they're at in their grief journey.
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Anthony: Mariam, do you ever wake up on the wrong side of the bed and put on the wrong hat, or hijab, and find yourself in a room going hang on…?
Mariam: Can I say I've had a few bad hijab days? Yes, so I can connect with that idea in that sense. But I guess when you're in a position where you know that nobody else can do what you do, nobody else is going to take over that responsibility, then you find strength and you just get the job done.
Nadine: I've been a carer for terminally ill people twice and during those times people have said, you know, how do you go on? You just, you just do. Someone needs you and that's it.
Mariam: Absolutely. And in saying that, how important is it for the carers to be cared for. Whenever I reconnect with the family after a death, usually around the seven to 10-day mark because that's when the real grief sets in. So they're running on adrenaline a lot before that. But once everyone's gone home and people aren't checking in as often, that's when the grief usually hits.
And that's where I see that carers’ fatigue set in as well. So this person's been cared for by that family for months before their death, and now all of a sudden they just can't get up for themselves. And so it's really important to recognise that carers also fatigue and crash after a death, and they're the ones that probably need the most support.
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Nadine (VO): In an aging population with finite public health resources and dramatically increasing public health costs, it seems we're all likely to be carers at some point. So what does the future look like where family-led death care is not a choice, but a necessity?
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Mariam: It's really going to become something that we have no choice in and that's because death rates are ever increasing and we simply don't have enough hospital beds or hospice beds to cater for what's coming.
So, whether we like it or not, we do have to get a lot more comfortable with the idea of having our loved ones die at home. And again, if we look back in history, hospitals were never built for people to live or die in. They were built to treat people who were ill and then eventually they would be discharged home.
And really, you can't treat death, right? There's a cure for everything, this is what modern medicine makes us believe. Except death. So the dying space does have to be transferred into the home and back into the community.
It's easy to say that, but what kind of support is then provided to families that want to have that option, or are going to have to choose that option down the track? So what palliative care services are available? Are they culturally responsive services? At the moment I can tell you that services out there are largely inadequate.
You know, we've got one hospice nurse or one palliative care nurse for an entire area health service, where she's sharing three or four clients that are passing away at the same time. And for Muslims, if someone was to pass away, they're gonna need things to be acted on pretty quickly. How does that nurse divide her time between so many different clients?
So there are so many questions that are now being raised around what level of support is available to people who want to die at home. 75% of us, if given the option, would prefer to die at home in the comfort of our families in that familiar environment. But what are we doing to help people make that a reality?
This is where a lot of the questions and a lot of resources need to be factored into.
Nadine: Also, it's a class issue; it's a financial issue.
We were very privileged to have my mum at home because we had the money to hire her a hospital bed. We had the money to hire private palliative nurses who worked around the clock. That was a huge privilege and we were very aware of that.
That has to stop being a privilege, though, and has to start being - not necessarily immediately, but as we progress - needs to be something that is actually more accessible to everyone.
Mariam: Well, it's the practical things like the hospital bed, the oxygen tank, the nursing staff to come in and check in on medication. But it's even more important things, and I say they're more important because if you have someone who passes away at home and you don't have a GP that's available to write that death certificate for you, your person may end up at the coroner and this really complicates the process.
And we really have a shortage of GPs that are available to come out after hours or at any time of the day to actually certify that death, to get the process going because the funeral director won't be able to collect a person unless their certificate has been issued.
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Nadine (VO): COVID-19 has been disproportionately devastating for many migrant communities, with people born in the Middle East suffering the highest death rates. For the Muslim community, the pandemic wounds run deep and many are still reeling.
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Anthony: So Mariam, COVID-19 has been obviously a truly difficult and in some cases life-changing experience for most people. How difficult was it to carry out your work and to support grieving families at a time like that? And we're not out of it evidently either.
Mariam: Oh, Anthony, I can go on for hours about the impact COVID had on death rituals and funerals and burials, and in particular, I can speak to the complexities that arose within the Muslim community.
Just last year I presented a talk on COVID-19 and the case for complicated grieving in the Muslim community. And the thing about complicated grieving, or complex grief, is that it doesn't present straight away. We see it about six to 12 months after.
And I was personally, like so many others, impacted by deaths from COVID because my beloved grandmother died very much disconnected from family in a hospital in August 2021, and her death was probably the most life-changing for me in terms of what I saw in that space because I was the most exempted person in NSW and yet I still couldn't be there for her when she was dying.
Anthony: I'm sorry to hear that.
Mariam: So I was a chaplain, which meant I could go into hospitals; I was a funeral director, which meant I wasn't restricted in terms of distance. Yet I still couldn't be with her. And we actually watched her pass away on a screen. But I was privileged enough to be her funeral director and I was able to take her into my care and perform the rituals, albeit slightly modified, and give her the death that she would have wanted.
But unfortunately, that was a privilege and I do see my privilege in that because so many others lost their loved ones and weren't able to honour them in the way that we actually do so. There was no ritual bathing. There was no ritual shrouding because the body had to be double-bagged before it was buried. And as I said earlier in the podcast, we don't believe in placing the body in a vessel. As such, we organically wrap them in shrouds and place them into the ground.
However, COVID deaths were treated very differently. We had to put them in two bags and then at one stage, they were actually mandating coffin burials in some cemeteries. So that was distressing for families. The restrictions meant that we had to limit attendees to 10 people and for a lot of our families, it's very difficult to pick who those 10 people are when there are 10 siblings potentially in the families. And I think because everything happened so quickly, there are still a lot of people that are stuck in that very initial stage of loss, which is denial.
So I bumped into an elderly man at a cafe in Western Sydney and he said to me, I was actually admitted to hospital the same time my brother was admitted and I stayed in hospital for four weeks and he died two weeks after his admission. But I didn't get to see him. And to be honest, I don't believe he's dead now.
And there are a lot of people that are still living with that denial and struggling to process that grief because they were disconnected from ritual, they were disconnected from their person. And so that made their grief journey a lot more difficult and we're still seeing long-lasting effects of that.
Anthony: What workarounds were you able to come up with during that time in order to still show reverence for or honour certain Islamic rights and rituals despite the public health orders?
Mariam: I'll give you the example of my grandmother because she died from COVID and we weren't able to wash her body. We can modify the washing practice in accordance to Islamic traditions, where we actually do what's called a dry ablution or a dry washing and what that means is we don't have to completely remove the body and bath them. We actually just strike the earth and then wipe over the face and the arms as opposed to using water, and it still fulfils that right, the first right for the deceased.
So I was able to do that for my grandmother. And instead of removing her from the body bag and placing her in the ritual shroud, I actually shrouded her around the bags. But for us, we were still able to pray the communal prayer - in limited numbers, of course. We couldn't open it up to the community like we normally would.
So yes, we modified the traditions but we were still able to offer them and reassure families that we were not completely disregarding them despite the restrictions.
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Nadine: I read in an interview you did that you said every death teaches you something; every new family teaches you something. What are, if you can recall some of the, you know, the key lessons that you have learned?
Mariam: The most consistent lesson I see almost right across the board is the benefits of planning your end of life.
So usually when someone passes away, honestly, whether it's an expected death or an unexpected death, there's usually a certain type of chaos that ensues. And when that happens, and again because our turn around time is so quick, if you don't know what the instructions were by the deceased for what happens after they die, then a lot of confusion and distress happens.
So where does my mum want her Janaza prayer? You know, where did she want to be buried? Which funeral service would she have wanted to be cared for by? So these questions, because they're all up in the air and there's been no decision or discussion about them made, it just makes a very distressing time even worse for families.
So key lessons would be, and this is what we, you know, as death educators do, is we reinforce the importance of planning for end-of-life because it cuts through all of that confusion and it makes following those steps so much easier on the family and they can just focus on what they need to focus on, which is grieving the loss of their loved one.
The other big lesson, I guess that I've learned is time is really short and living with things like regret or interpersonal conflict is really, really difficult when the person that you are estranged from is dying. And so making peace with your kin and not holding grudges against others is probably one of the biggest takeaway points for me.
When you're looking at someone who's dying, everything in the world looks really small and insignificant. You know, the person and the life that they lived and the fact that they will no longer be with us very soon calls for a lot more, you know, just putting the little disputes and rifts aside and just making peace with each other and not having that conflict stand in the way.
Nadine: What is the most rewarding part of your job? What, you know, puts a smile on your face through what you're doing?
Mariam: Honestly, it's just knowing that I've been able to spend some time with the family and make a really, really difficult time a little bit easier for them.
So when I sit with the family, who's in the midst of their grief, just knowing that I can sit there and listen to the fears that they had around what's happened to their person and what's going to happen. Reassure them that they're going to be looked after; bring them into that space and then have them more enriched because of that experience. That's what puts a smile on my face.
I have never had a person, in 17 years of doing this, come to me and say, I'm worse off now that I've been a part of this experience. It's been the exact opposite. I get messages constantly on social media saying, I remember you, you were there for my mum when she passed away and I'll never forget what you taught me.
Or, you know, I attended a death and dying workshop last weekend and I had no idea that only a few days later I'd have to be that person for my mum who passed away.
So hearing that feedback and knowing that this is actually changing people's understanding of death and dying and making them feel like they were able to honour their loved one in a way that really, you can't match, it is really what keeps me going in this space and hopefully I can continue to do it forever.
Nadine: And, I guess we've talked about this in, I guess in relation to COVID but what's the most challenging?
Mariam: Well, without sounding too dramatic, honestly, I much prefer dealing with the dead than the living. You know, when I've got a person in my care, they’re, you know, it's just such a beautiful experience. You know, I'm able to honour them and care for them. I talk to the deceased all the time because we believe the soul remains around the body until burial.
It's the living that challenges me, you know? It's facing that, you know, that conflict that sometimes happens when a person passes away. It's people muscling in and trying to make decisions that, you know, may not align with the person who just passed. It's that intra-family conflict that sometimes raises its head, you know, around assets and disposal of incomes.
And this is the stuff that I dread because it does rear its head almost every time, to some degree. So I much prefer working with the deceased.
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Nadine: Hey, Anthony, do you know what time it is?
Anthony: I do.
The concept of a good death is really nothing new in the Islamic faith. Husnul khatima, if I'm pronouncing that even remotely correctly, entails asking for or seeking a good ending to one's life. So what does a good death mean to Mariam?
Mariam: A good death for me is a death that aligns with my values. It's a death that happens in the presence of my loved ones. A death that gives me hope, particularly at a time when despair and fear are usually experienced by people at end-of-life. And that usually involves having constant remembrance of God in my ears, so that's usually a recitation of Quran or Dua, or prayers being offered.
It's being in a space that I feel comfortable letting go in, and this is really important because to me that wouldn't be a hospital. It would be a place where I'm surrounded by my loved ones and my family and constantly remembering the hope and mercy that God offers me on my journey.
Nadine: And is there any final thought you'd like to leave us with?
Mariam: I think just the importance of talking about this inevitable experience of our human existence. It's to really sit down and think about what a good death means for you personally and how you're going to make that happen. And once you've thought about it and given it some due right, put those instructions in writing and communicate them to your loved ones. And that's probably the way I'd like to end this podcast, which has been amazing, by the way.
Nadine: Well, thank you so much, Mariam. Thank you for joining us and sharing with us.
Mariam: Thank you for your time.
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Anthony: So that was Mariam Ardati. What are your thoughts?
Nadine: I mean many but I think what struck me most powerfully is her ability to adapt during COVID and to find ways to honour her grandmother and other members of her community with the rights and rituals that they deserve and they should have while following the rules and regulations. And I think that just shows such beautiful tenacity…
Anthony: That's the word.
Nadine: …and you know, intelligence and reverence. And yeah, I'm really inspired by that.
Anthony: The other word that comes to mind is her incredible generosity. Because she is giving so much to her community, especially in the aftermath of a time that was so difficult. And it's so evident that many members of her community are still struggling with the grief because it was interrupted by COVID in so many ways. They weren’t able to perform those rituals. So I just take my hat off to her.
Nadine: And she does it all for free.
Anthony: Amazing.
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Nadine: So thanks again to Mariam Ardati. Our next episode is all about the pandemic, so that'll be fun. And we'll be talking to death studies expert Dr John Troyer.
John So one of the things that COVID showed was just how quickly something like a pandemic, or something like a novel virus or disease in the same way that HIV was in its own day, how quickly it can just change everything. And that the status quo that you would have expected. Of I will always be able to be by this person if they've died, you know, hold their hands, touch them, see them dying, how quickly that can be taken away.
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Grave Matters is an SBS podcast, written and hosted by Anthony Levin and Nadine J. Cohen and produced by Jeremy Wilmot. The SBS team is Caroline Gates, Joel Supple and Max Gosford. If you'd like to get in touch, e-mail audio@sbs.com.au.
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