Tarang Chawla is very accomplished in his own right — a lawyer, academic, and commissioner at the Victorian Multicultural Commission. He has a long list of achievements. But he rarely speaks about himself.
In his activism, Tarang speaks up for women, victims of gender based violence and marginalised groups misrepresented by mainstream media.
I think anyone, regardless of their gender, doesn't want to or choose to be in the space from the perspective in which I came to work in the area. I came to do my advocacy work following the murder of Niki, my sister. That was the way that I sort of started speaking out. One of the things was about how she was represented in the media at the time, you know, being a young woman of colour, the way that her life was valued or rather devalued in contrast to other women's lives, or in particular to the way men's lives sometimes are.
In this episode, activist Tarang Chawla shares with us how grief led to activism, what living with grief means for his family today, and most importantly, how we can all work together to stop gender based violence.
LISTEN TO
Tarang Chawla: From grief to activism
SBS Audio
18/03/202430:36
Hosted by Yumi Stynes, SEEN is a podcast series about the trailblazers who persist and succeed without positive role models in mainstream culture. You’ll hear from the likes of leading tech creative Tea Uglow, drag royalty Kween Kong, and academic and writer Dr Amy Thunig as they share their stories of resilience and courage.
Follow SEEN on the SBS Audio website or app, Spotify and Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Host: Yumi Stynes
Producers: Mandy Yuan, Laura Brierley Newton, Marcus Costello
Sound Design and Mix: Ravi Gupta
Executive Producer: Kate Montague
Theme Music: Yeo
Art: Evi O Studios
SBS Team: Caroline Gates, Max Gosford, Joel Supple, Micky Grossman
Original concept by: Bernadette Phương Nam Nguyễn
Transcript
(Theme music)
Yumi STYNES (Voiceover): I'm Yumi Stynes and you're listening to SEEN, a podcast where we celebrate the trailblazers who succeed and become the role model that they longed to see.
We start by acknowledging the Traditional Owners of the land on which we record, the Cammeraygal people, Gadigal people, Wurundjeri people, and their Elders past and present.
A warning: today's episode contains references to domestic violence.
(Gentle sombre music)
Tarang CHAWLA: My sister is in my favourites, my phone favourites. And whenever I like update like my iCloud thing, the first thing I check is that she's still in my phone favourites, and that my messages with her are still there.
STYNES (Voiceover): My guest today is Tarang Chawla. And he has never stopped missing his sister.
CHAWLA: And even for years, my dad sort of kept paying her phone bill just to keep the number. For like two years.
STYNES (Voiceover): This episode of SEEN is a bit different.
Australia is in a crisis of domestic violence. In this country, on average, one woman is killed each week by a partner or former partner.
There are regular cries for more media coverage of the urgency of this problem, and for better reporting — with less emphasis on how the murderer was such a great guy who showed such promise, and less emphasis on what the victim looked like or what she was wearing.
Award-winning books, podcasts and TV shows are made confronting this problem, but do you know what stands out amongst this noise?
The lack of male voices. Where are the men calling for an end of violence against women?
Today we welcome Tarang Chawla, who is one of those rare, male voices. And this episode is less about him and more about all the women whose stories were cut short or will remain untold; all the women who will remain unseen because of domestic violence and murder.
One of those women is Tarang's sister, Niki Chawla.
(Music fades)
CHAWLA: One of the things that people say to me when they're like, “Oh, I've heard your sister's story,” and I don't correct them because I don't want to be rude, and I know that it's well intentioned, but I have half a mind saying, “I don't know if you do. You know the story of the man who killed her.”
STYNES (Voiceover): I want to share, at the risk of obnoxiously talking about myself, that we recorded this episode at the tail end of a harrowing 12 months for me personally, where I endured hundreds of death threats from men. There was abuse, I had to take out AVOs and at least one man was charged by police for threatening to rape and mutilate me.
The last 12 months felt a lifetime away from when I started in media as a bouncy and joyful music reporter for Channel V 20 years ago, and the violence of this pile-on was sickeningly reminiscent of an equally harrowing time, which I discussed on this podcast with another young woman of colour — author, engineer, and activist Yassmin Abdel Magied, who experienced immeasurable threats of violence and pile-ons for daring to speak in public in Australia…
I mention this because it forms a subtext for this interview. That women of colour are less safe in this country, and that the casual, “everyday” misogyny women experience is the fertile ground where seeds of terrible violence are planted.
(Gentle piano music)
Niki Chawla was just 23 when she was murdered by her partner while she slept. Tarang was the family member sent to identify the body.
Because of the horrific nature of the attack, Niki’s murder generated a lot of media attention.
This episode is about looking beyond the headline... beyond the label of “murder victim”.
CHAWLA: The main act in her story is not her death, right? The main act is the joy that she brought people every day of her life. It's her career aspirations, it was her performing arts, it was her dance, theatre, it was all of those things. And similarly, with every woman, you know, who's killed, their story is not their death.
STYNES (Voiceover): Tarang Chawla is a lawyer, an academic at Monash University, he's a commissioner at the Victorian Multicultural Commission, and he's the founder of 'Not One More Niki' — a movement to help end violence against women, and ensure that survivors’ stories are shared in a safe and sensitive way.
It's for this reason that Tarang doesn't like to discuss the details of his sister's murder. He feels media reports often focus on the wrong parts of the story.
They make out as if there were things Niki could have done to avoid being murdered.
CHAWLA: Like so many women, she was killed in the context of separation because he couldn't take that she was finally free. And so what we saw was that she didn't fit this perfect victim narrative. So everything was about what she did wrong rather than what he did.
That is the, the shitty story arc of a pathetic, jealous, controlling, vindictive man. Who refused to get help, who exacerbated a culture of disrespect and inequality, who acted with jealousy and control and such shame that they then don't always even have the ability to reckon with what they've done. And then show any kind of meaningful remorse.
STYNES (Voiceover): During sentencing in the Supreme Court, Niki’s killer’s actions were seen as an act of such callous and unprovoked brutality that the judge who sentenced him said, “Nothing Nikita Chawla did in any way whatsoever contributed to what you chose to do to her.”
STYNES: One of the reasons we wanted to speak to you so much was because there are not many men in this space of anti-violence against women. Tell us what it's like and how you ended up in that space.
CHAWLA: I think anyone, regardless of their gender, doesn't want to or choose to be in the space from the perspective in which I came to work in the area. I came to do my advocacy work following the murder of Niki, my sister. Right, that was, that was a way that I sort of started speaking out.
One of the things was about how she was represented in the media at the time, you know, being a young woman of colour, the way that her life was valued or rather devalued in contrast to other women's lives, or in particular to the way men's lives sometimes are.
The other was to find something to do with the pain, Yumi, right? There was so much anger that sort of sat underneath my grief. And it was a way to process it because I was so, you know, if you lose someone you love, in any circumstances, you go through a mix of emotions. But when you lose someone you love to murder, it's so acute and it's so painful because there is someone that you can project blame onto. There is someone that is responsible for their death. And so for me, it was like, what do I do with all that emotion? How can I put it into something tangible?
And I didn't have a plan, like I didn't come to do this thinking, oh, it's going to lead to anything. It was just a way of processing really early on.
So it was like, I want this to be better for other people. So I have to speak out about it.
It felt like a duty.
STYNES (Voiceover): Being driven by duty does not mean you’re prepared for the media to report salacious details and sensationalise the very worst day — the last day, of someone’s life.
CHAWLA: On the one hand, we'd have journalists sort of coming to my family and saying, “Hey, we'd love to tell your story and get the word out there.” And on the other, we'd be reading these dehumanising things that were scandalising my sister's life.
And so it was really, really... difficult to kind of comprehend the juxtaposition between those two things, because it was like, hang on, do you want to say what we think and what our experience is, or do you want to like, just scandalise these aspects of, you know, what you think will sell and what you think will get clicks?
And, uh, I think it, it happens a lot. Like, it doesn't, didn't just happen with Niki. And I think it happens because… the truth is actually rather bland, and it's that there are men who have a sense of entitlement over women, and then they choose to show control by taking matters into their own hands and committing really, really violent acts.
That's it. You know? But as a whole, the media doesn't really do anything other than a disservice to victims of, of men's violence. Because we hear the really like acute thing, which is the murder. And then we also ascribe so much of the woman's life through the media to that final act, which isn't even about her, right? It's not even about her.
(Gentle music)
STYNES: One of the things that stands out about your example, Tarang, is that the consequences of that violence on the family surviving is visible. So it's not like this woman died in horrific circumstances and that's the end of the story. The story has continued through your work. What's it like for your parents?
CHAWLA: I think my dad is older than he would otherwise have been. My dad is now, uh, 67. And I, I feel like he's older than that. And my mum, I know she's definitely older than 61. In some ways. Right? Uh, there's sort of a, a difference in family photos and I'm not just talking about the obvious, that like the photos of the family of four are missing Niki, like that's, that's very glaringly obvious. But there's something in like people's eyes when you look at photos from like happy family occasions where something's missing.
It's really heartbreaking to know that they don't get to watch their daughter grow up and have all the kinds of common experiences. They've changed, you know, in some positive ways and in a lot of ways that are just negative to them. Like my dad still has sleepless nights years later. The post-traumatic stress.
My mom in particular has found that her faith is a really big part of her life, and she's become someone who's very open and very accepting and very loving. I'll give you an example, right? If I go to my parents house, she'll be like, “Oh, yeah, I made friends today with Anna Nonna,” and I'm like, “Who's Anna Nonna?”
“Oh, she's an old Italian lady that lives in the neighbourhood. Um, her name's Anna, but I call her Nonna. I've got focaccia from Anna Nonna, and then Anna Nonna's got like some lamb rogan josh, and like we're swapping foods, and like Anna Nonna's coming over, and we're gonna make tiramisu, and then I'm gonna go there, and I'm gonna teach her to make barfi,” which is like Indian sweet.
Like, that's one of the positives that's happened, is that my mom just has so much time for her local community and those around her. I think the priorities of life shift. In a way, like you put a greater priority on peace because there's so much unrest in, um, experiencing that kind of loss.
STYNES: Tell me about what in your activist work you're most proud of.
CHAWLA: I'm most proud of the fact that people know Niki's name, that they know that she was someone who mattered to people.
That she's more than the actions of the person who killed her. And I'm also grateful that there is a growing appetite for these conversations in Australia. You know, like it used to bother me, for example, that there are men who will only listen to other men saying the things that I'm saying. It used to really anger me because it was like, why don't you listen to women?
And then, and then it made sense to me, which was that they don't listen to women because that's what the problem is. Because they fundamentally don't believe, in equality through actions, right? ‘Cause it's very easy to like, put on a ribbon on a day and just say, oh, I believe in equality for all people.
But to actually do it involves giving up something sometimes. It involves educating yourself. It involves awareness. It involves self reflection, right? And self reflection is really uncomfortable. Every time I have to self reflect, you know, I'm like, “Oh man, did I really say that? Did I do that? Is that who I am? Like, who am I?” etc. Like, it's really, you have to sit with it, you know? And, um, a lot of those things almost go counter to how we frame some ideas of masculinity. Which is around going and getting and doing and being done, rather than actually sitting in the solitude and the disquiet, and reckoning with it.
So I'm proud that like we're in a space where we're having these conversations, but we have to acknowledge we're going from an imperfect space and anything that gets men reflecting and listening and thinking any progress in a positive direction is a positive step.
STYNES: Let's imagine that there are men in droves listening to this and they have malleable brains, a lot of plasticity, and they can take on some messages.
CHAWLA: I would say… surround yourself with men that you'd be proud of telling other women that you look up to them. And if that's a sports person who is known for committing acts of violence against women, tell the women in your life and then wait and see what they say.
And then re-evaluate and then go hang on, am I comfortable with that? Because I think a lot of what I want to tell men is actually that we do enough of the talking in society and that we need to start doing more of the listening, right? We need to start listening, you know to women, to people of colour, to generally broader marginalised groups and start hearing their experiences because then it will impress upon us — wow, that this is what the lived and living experience is for other people.
As men we have to grapple with that and we have to like check ourselves as well because a lot of men will say things like oh it's you know, we should protect women and it's like — think about who they need protecting from.
Other men.
It's not our job to protect women. It's our job to create a culture where women don't need protecting from men. It's about like listening, learning, reflecting, and then adapting to be the example that you'd be proud of.
STYNES (Voiceover): I asked how Tarang thinks we can create that culture.
CHAWLA: Sometimes when it comes to addressing these issues, as much as we're talking about like, cultural change, we're not doing things where people are, right?
I'll tell you two groups of people that teenage boys do not listen to: one is teachers, and the other is parents. And you've got the responsibility on both of them to change their attitudes, you know, or to support them to develop healthier, positive, pro social attitudes. And you know, I don't want to be like all doomsday about it, but it won't work if that's the only strategy.
STYNES: And Tarang, if it's not teachers and it's not parents, who will they listen to?
CHAWLA: They'll listen to who they see as role models. Right? And where do they get their role models? They get them online. And so go to them online, go to them through their sporting heroes.
YUMI: My son was asked, who's his favourite football player? And he said Sam Kerr… and the man who asked said, “But she's a girl!” as though he couldn't look up to a woman.
CHAWLA: Mm, that's such a powerful thing, right? I'm glad you brought it up Yumi, because for me, the best thing about women's sport from a, you know, perspective of, of a man and, once a young boy is that I love that women's sport is getting more of a look in and more exposure because to me, when I was growing up, the only sporting heroes that were available to me were men, that's all I saw. And so for me, it's, it's not just seeing young girls looking up to women, of course, but it's seeing young boys idolise women.
Just being in a society where they, you know, they look up to women in a way that's distinct from how my generation looked up to women, because my generation looked up to women if they were hot. That was a sole criteria of looking up to women was, are they hot? And it was like, yes or no. And if they were not deemed hot, then they weren't worth the looking up to. Like, that was the level of objectification. And that was normal, right? Like, I'm not that old, right?
(Gentle music)
STYNES (Voiceover): If we’re talking about the culture in Australia that makes domestic violence so rife, we have to talk about Australian sporting culture, and the role models created through men’s sports.
(Music fades)
CHAWLA: You know, like, of course there are some sporting heroes who are terrible in their treatment of women, but not all of them. Right, so use the good ones who kids look up to, who young boys, who young girls look up to in the same way that we have used the Matildas to talk about equality and acceptance and respect.
Use some of the men who are good men and amplify them. Because they exist, right?
STYNES: I don't know if I agree, like, uh, can those so-called good men exist where like these guys have, have proven allegations made against them and they're still lionised. They're still given humongous fat paychecks and they're fronting these codes that frankly tells me, they're not safe and the entire code is not a safe place for women.
And if you fit into that code, even just as a minor player, you're probably unsafe also.
CHAWLA: Yeah. That's a really interesting perspective. And I'm really grateful that you shared that because, I can understand why, broader than just women, I can understand any human being who's had an unsafe experience around sport likely has cause to feel that way, that this whole thing is unsafe.
We can't have that. We have to have the same kind of attitude and approach that is taken to women's sport, where they try to make it safe. They try to make it inclusive. We need to go back to basics with men's sport. Right? And that involves some pretty hard conversations around lobby groups, around alcohol, around gambling, around liquor reform, around all of the things that Australian masculine culture is centred around.
So, it goes hand in hand. You know, if we just did one thing, if we just got the good men, Speaking on socials. It's not going to change anything. But I'm saying that if we want to reach young people, we've got to go where they are. We can't just put it in schools and think they're going to listen to their teachers or listen to one guest speaker every so often.
STYNES: Right. It depends on where you are, like where, what spaces you inhabit. Like, I read something you wrote about sport and how racist sport is.
CHAWLA: Oh yeah.
STYNES: And man, that's one of the reasons I don't engage in sport, which is, you know, because I, it's, it's very unsafe and toxic and I don't need to be around it.
That said, I did watch the Matildas, which seemed very un-racist, and un-sexist
CHAWLA: Well that’s the hope, right?
STYNES: Yeah.
CHAWLA: You know the fact that Sam Kerr is from like a migrant background, right? Like she's South Asian background and she's being like celebrated. The fact that-
STYNES: Yeah, but Tarang, how excellent did she have to be? Like, she couldn't be a bit shitty, you know, she couldn't be off raping people, you know, getting drunk in nightclubs and stuff and be applauded and given captaincy
CHAWLA: Yeah, well, we shouldn't applaud people doing those actions anyway-
STYNES: But we do, as Australia
CHAWLA: We like to, yeah, at the least we excuse them. And then sometimes we valorise them.
(Music sting)
STYNES: I want to just go back to this fire that started in you that was hot anger and grief and rage and the sense of injustice, to where you are now.
You know, you can be so fired up, you can be so energised by anger and rage, um, but then you have to kind of figure out what to do with it and how best to direct it.
Tell me what you have learnt in the years since that time.
CHAWLA: Yeah. What a great question, Yumi. I think one of the things that I've learned from my experience of, you know, a person of colour, if you get angry, if you cry, if you visibly display emotion, then you are pushed to one side, right? There's so few of us in the media, And when we show emotion, it has to be joy and has to be gratitude that we're here, right? That's one of the things that I've learned about, representation.
And so, I think it takes guts to like speak out because you do get people telling you to kill yourself on a regular basis when you speak out as a person of colour.
And I know you'll relate to this, Yumi, is that we become representatives. Not just for ourselves. If I say something, it becomes representative of, this is how all South Asian men are or what they could be, right? Whereas if you're, a middle class white, middle aged, you know, man in Australia, it's less likely that your opinion represents the views of everyone.
STYNES: You mentioned that in the time since your sister's murder the thing that you've learnt is to be moderate in your voice. What's the penalty if you're not?
CHAWLA: I've been so careful, Yumi, that I, I don't... even know like, what the full extent of the consequences would be, you know, like I haven't, I haven't necessarily, you know, I haven't had what like Yassmin has had where she's been pushed out of the country or anything. But that's not to say that I don't get messages all the time.
I got a message just, you know, on my way into the studio just telling me to fuck off back to India. Uh, this stuff shouldn’t happen. Right, like you shouldn’t expose people to it? It's just like, if you're gonna insult me, don't tell me to fuck off back home. Like, I am home. Give me something good. Like, make me think, oh, that was like an intellectual burn. Like, make me use my law degree to actually come up with a defence. Right? And so this is my home and I speak out because I want my home to be better.
You know, I do what I do because I genuinely fundamentally care. I care about this country. I care about the safety of people. I criticise aspects of Australia not because I hate Australia. I criticise aspects of Australia because I fucking love this country, so much. I'm so grateful.
STYNES: It's funny about being asked to leave and not having anywhere to go, because a lot of that often comes down to if you say anything critical of Australia, that's sort of a trigger for people to say, well, then you should leave Australia.
Is that what your experience of, you know, that kind of model minority, is like, is that you can be excellent, you can be, like, world class at your thing, but you mustn't ever try and improve your home, which is Australia.
CHAWLA: Absolutely. It's know your place. Right. And that's what happened. You know, like the episode that you did with Yassmin Abdel-Magied was fantastic. And there's so many, so many of the others. Right. And, I was gonna say, if anyone's listening to this one, just turn it off and go listen to the other ones. (Laughs)
But, but like, I definitely agree with you there, right. That it, that as long as we know our place, everything is fine.
And if you want to be regarded for anything that you do, you've got to do it better than anyone else. And particularly for like women of colour. If they are not superstars, you know, in their chosen like field or profession, they don't get a look in, right?
The Australian media shows that. Like the level of like, talent you need to be a woman of colour in the media is just exponentially higher. And then a strong dose of like luck and opportunity and things falling into place that are beyond your control. Right? So it's so hard and so difficult.
And I'm also lucky, like, I, like, living in Melbourne, you get in a bubble, right? Like, or if you live in, like, parts of Sydney or parts of Brisbane or Adelaide or Perth, like, you get into a little bubble, right?
Because you're just, like, surrounded by like-minded people who are, you know, generally pretty socially progressive and live and let live. And then you go to other parts of Australia and you notice it, right? Like-
STYNES: Well you feel unsafe.
TARANG CHAWLA: Yeah! You feel unsafe. I'm really glad you said that about the safety. Cause I think sometimes people misunderstand safety as being like imminent physical threat. It's not that. Most of the time, it's not imminent physical threat. Like people think dark alleyway, unsafe, hearing people who've been drinking near you. Oh God, what's going to happen? Am I going to get attacked? That's not the kind of safety that I think of first.
I think of like the little, of the little interactions where, you know, people make off handed comments about the clothes my mom wears or about certain things that make you, uh, sort of question. Do I belong here? Like, do I feel safe in this space? Right? Because I think sometimes people think safety is just this threat of violence and most often it's not. Thankfully.
But it's the day to day stuff, because that wears you down over time. And that makes a lot of people of color, particularly in our climate in Australia, just start going like, what the fuck? Like, how much do I have to give to this country just to be accepted as me? You know? And they get worn out. They get tired.
STYNES: It reminds me of somebody using a slur in front of you and you're like, that slur is not actually about me or my minority, but now I have to either say something or I have to be complicit and be silent. Like, I don't want to do either of those things. I'm tired. I just want, I want peace.
CHAWLA: Yeah.
STYNES: It's very hard to explain though because people feel like race is something you can, well white people feel like you can take your race off and just have some free time without it. (Laughs)
CHAWLA: Well, I mean, you, you can't, right. And, um, it's really. It's really hard to talk about because it raises a lot of defensiveness. Like when the Black Lives Matter movement was in the media, if you talked about, if you use the words “white privilege” in Australia, you, like, you couldn't. And it's, at its core, it's just a really simple idea, which is that, white people aren't disadvantaged by virtue of their skin tone, right?
It's not saying that you didn't work hard or it's not saying that you didn't like deserve the stuff that you've got in life, but people take everything as an attack.
Uh, and I think that you know, there is that beautiful, like Maya Angelou quote, where she says, you know, like, to those with, uh, privilege, equality feels like oppression. And that's what's going on, right? That's what it is that they, they're not aware of it and it's making us more divided.
(Music sting)
STYNES: Tarang, thank you so much for the work that you do. It's really meaningful and impactful and good to see someone doing it.
CHAWLA: No, of course. And, um, it's so weird because Niki and I like grew up watching Channel V and, uh, I wouldn't know what Niki thought, but I do know that whenever she saw, you know, women on screen in those environments, cause she was in like performing arts — that it gave her this sense of like, “Hey, I could do that. I could be that I could maybe be seen.” So, um, yeah. I know that was earlier in your career, but it's kind of cool and, uh, almost weird to feel like full circle and be like, oh, talking to Yumi now.
STYNES: Yay. I hope she's sort of with us in the room a bit.
CHAWLA: Yeah. I hope so. I hope so.
STYNES: Do you feel like your work is seen by Niki?
CHAWLA: I… I mean I hope so. She knows I love her and loved her. She knows that. I know she loved me, like I was really lucky to have her in my life as a sibling cause she was really, really loving to everyone.
(Solemn music)
Um, would she, like, see my work or would I feel seen, you know? I, I mean, I don't know, Yumi like, I just think it's so cruel and unfair. Because there's something in particular, you know, for me as the brother of a young woman who was killed is just seeing that, that look of optimism and hope in their eyes. Like, the picture of Niki that’s in the media right is one taken just before she was killed on a family holiday with my parents, and, uh. And she was so free and so happy, and hindsight is 20-20, cause the hindsight makes you go, oh, okay, of course it makes sense.
She's like, she's leaving, she's free, she's going forward in her life.
And my parents, you know, when they spoke to the court after she was killed, my, my mum said something to the judge where she was like, “Your Honour, I was very lucky to have had a child that, although I only had her in my life for a short amount of time, I was given the love of many lifetimes.” You know, that was like something that my mom said to the, to the court.
And it really like, it's who she was. She was a very giving person.
And I'm at a point now where like, if I drop dead tomorrow, I think I've like, I've tried, I've tried everything I possibly can, and not for recognition, like not to be seen or to be like recognised, um, because I'd give it all back.
I just would want to have a conversation with my sister.
(Music fades)
STYNES: Do you feel that your work will ever be finished?
CHAWLA: I don't know if it'll ever be finished.
I… will always keep doing it in some way because I'll never stop caring.
I care about this country. I care about the safety of people. I care about my family, I care about my sister. So I'll, I'll keep doing it in some way.
If the question is more around, are we going to live in a society where there's no need for it? I hope so.
(Theme music)
STYNES (Voiceover): This has been SEEN, hosted by me, Yumi Stynes. If you liked this episode, please like and share it with the people around you who you think will love it because every share helps our show to grow.
From Audiocraft, Season 2 of Seen was produced by Mandy Yuan, Laura Brierley Newton and Marcus Costello. Sound design and mix is done by Ravi Gupta, and Executive Producer is Kate Montague.
The SBS team are Caroline Gates, Joel Supple, Max Gosford and Micky Grossman.
Our podcast artwork is created by Evi-O Studios.
And music is by Yeo.
SEEN's original concept was by Bernadette Phương Nam Nguyễn.
(Theme music fades)
